Because of the severe budget crisis in Nevada, UNLV is proposing laying off 315 people (about 1/2 are unfilled positions) and dropping at least programs.
From the LVRJ: Past budget cuts of $49.6 million at UNLV have resulted in larger class sizes, tuition and fee increases, employee buyouts, hiring freezes and, last year, the elimination of six departments. Academics makes up about 75 percent of the university's budget, but has taken only 25 percent of the cuts in the past. Smatresk said there is no way to do that anymore.
"Our ability to take cuts from other parts of the budget is exhausted," he said.
Tuesday, 12 more departments got the bad news. Some will be eliminated, and some will be folded into other departments.
Philosophy, Women's Studies and Social Work would go under Smatresk's proposal, which would ultimately require approval from the higher education system's Board of Regents. That would not come until the Legislature is through this summer because the cuts are only proposed until the Legislature acts and the governor signs a bill. http://www.lvrj.com/news/unlv-to-kill-315-jobs-33-degree-programs-to-meet-proposed-budget-cuts-117623393.html
It's great news that UNLV will eliminate the Philosophy and Women studies programs. Those two programs are completely worthless. The social worker's program is kind of iffy because you can actually get a job as a social worker.
There are other programs UNLV could eliminate as well. Latin American, Afro-American and Italian studies should go as well.
So, kudos to UNLV for getting rid of two worthless programs. Hopefully, this is a start to reforming the higher education system in Nevada.
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While it makes logical sense to eliminate programs such as PHIL and WMST, it's another thing to say they are worthless. Many people do not attend college for purely utilitarian reasons.
ReplyDeleteLogical sense? Because philosophy is merely a bourgeois pursuit and the masses should never have access? They should know their place of taking care of the rich people's basic needs? How dare they pursue critical thinking so they know when they are being duped! And women's studies... just put them back in the private sphere where they take care of men's needs instead of thinking for themselves...
ReplyDeleteNo...logical in that we are facing a very real budgetary crisis (albeit an involuntary one forced upon us by Gov. Sandoval), and money will have to come from somewhere, somewhere like the overstaffed and understudied subjects mentioned above. Don't confuse this as disdain for those particular subjects as I work closely with people involved with the PHIL Dept, WMST Dept, and WRIN. As I already said, calling them "worthless" subjects is a huge overstatement grounded in utilitarian capitalism.
ReplyDeleteUniversities are not the same as technical schools. Philosophy trains the brain to think in new ways, which is useful in a wide variety of fields. I had no interest in majoring in Philosophy, but the one class I took was helpful in my Business School studies. If UW-Madison had eliminated its Philosophy program, that class would not have been available.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but if you want to study Philosphy and Women Studies, go to a private university. I But don't ask taxpayers to subsidize programs like these, where the benefit is very little unless you want to become a college professor in these areas.
ReplyDeleteIf it is such a great program, then the university should go out and get grants and donations to fund these programs. But when there is a budget crisis, you need to decide which are the most important programs.
Dan,
ReplyDeletePhilosophy is: Ethics, Logic, Aesthetics, Metaphysics and Epistemology. Let's take the first two, I think that wrestling with these in a meaningful way is a core part of being college educated. I for one am uninterested in hiring such people.
Now maybe aesthetics can be taught from an Art department with appropriate art theorists. And I suspect from your comments that you don't have much regard for metaphysics (what can we say about the world around us, and on what do we base such statements?) and espistemology (what can we say about knowledge or what we know, and on what do we base such statements).
Should be whittle the English department down to good memos? What about Math, should that department teach nothing beyond what the accountants and engineers need? By the time you're done you have a real nice vocational school. Nice job.
Did somebody not inform you all that by eliminating Philosophy from any college, you are eliminating all critical thinking classes? C'mon, think about it, use your brains. Why didn't they cut the athletic department? Why? Simple question, can someone answer that one?
ReplyDeleteSimple answer, follow the paper trail of power. Elites want a slave class unable to think/act for themselves. Sports bring money because people relate more on an emotional level to athletes/celebrities than to their politicians (which is why corporate/media target athletes to sell products). Don't believe it? People aren't rioting about education cuts yet, but try cancelling the superbowl...
ReplyDelete@Dan:
ReplyDeleteLittle benefit? Even the engineering program requires their students to take an ethics course, not to mention the logic courses CS majors have to take. Completely taking out those courses by eliminating the PHIL Dept. would cripple the teaching ability of the whole engineering school. Scott is correct when he asks how much whittling down must take place for this institution to satisfy these cuts but remain a respectable symbol of higher education. Many fields are interdisciplinary, and critical thinking is essential to all of them (as evidenced by the PHIL requirement for all programs). What constitutes a "beneficial" subject if Philosophy is considered worthless? Also, get grants to sustain itself? Sure, it's just that simple, especially when notification of your department's cut had been planned for so long...in fact, why not have our whole state go out there and get all that free money? That ought to solve this crisis for us.
So Dan is evidently unaware that Philosophy students often go on to lucrative careers in the Law, that Philosophy is actually one of the level cheapest to staff since it has no equipment or space needs and hardly even classroom equipment (classic primary texts), and that outcomes of taking even one philosophy class consistently show increased critical thinking and analytical, logical skills. Of course, for Dan to learn this, he would have to be able to critically think about his own assumption that something he has never studied is "completely worthless." Interestingly, just taking one philosophy class would valuably assist him in questioning his assumptions, but oh well! What an outstanding example his blog post is of the evident need for MORE philosophical training of the mind. In making an ass of himself, he does us all a service.
ReplyDeleteI have no problem if a course or two is offered in philosophy or women's studies but to offer a major or minor in these areas is worthless.
ReplyDeleteWhen an engineer, teacher, lawyer, nurse, and in this part of the country, hospitality majors come out of school, they will be able to produce and pay taxes to subsidize the colleges through their taxes. A graduate of women studies or philosophy will not be able to that.
What good is a women studies or philosophy degree (not to mention Latin American, Afro-American and Itatlian studies)? There are very few jobs out there for people with those degrees.
Further, why should the taxpayer
So, offer a class or two in philosophy or woment studies if you want, but stop offering a degree in these areas.
It is an unfounded assumption to say that those who major in philosophy or women's studies won't "produce." While obviously not all of the graduates from these programs will work in their field, the importance lies in the knowledge they've obtained. Many will find employment in the business sector while contributing something equally as important as capital...social activism. They are the people who form and maintain organizations which promote greater discourse on issues plaguing our society and work to solve them. It is equally erroneous to believe that because one majors in a certain field, that they will automatically be "productive." If you are supportive of the idea that courses in subjects like philosophy SHOULD be offered, why would you encourage the elimination of the departments? This is not selective reorganization the legislators and board are deciding on...it is complete obliteration.
ReplyDeleteFirst, thanks to everyone who shasred their opinion and being civil about this issue.
ReplyDeleteBut the fact is, where do you cut? The State is broke and is facing at least a billion dollar short fall.
So, where do you want to cut? My suggestions includes getting rid of professors like Dina titus who is teaching only 1 class and getting paid $107,000 for it. That is abusing the system.
Would you support professors putting more time in the classroom and increased office hours so that mre students can go to college?
Is UNLV and UNR top heavy in administration like CCSD?
How about the building of a new stadium/arenaat UNLV?
So, it's nice to say, raise taxes, but that is not the answer because it takes time to raise taxes in Nevada and there is no gurantee that a tax hike will be ruled constitutional.
So, what would you do?
I think that a temporary deeper cut to state employees' (particularly firefighters) salaries should take effect until new tax structures can be put in place. It's nice when people talk about "weathering the storm" or "shouldering the weight" TOGETHER, but now is the time to put this plan into action. Legalized gaming, our cash cow for the last 80 years, is now becoming stagnant. It is understandable that people are afraid to lose more jobs, but what hope is there if the state cannot attract businesses to relocate here? No new jobs can be created without new industry to this state, and those who come here are dissuaded by the fact that we do not have a capable workforce and that we are willing to cut from our schools so liberally.
ReplyDelete^ as an addendum to that, I just remembered that they are proposing cutting Environmental Science out of UNLV's degree programs. With renewable energy research being one of the only possible industries which may help Nevada recover, the Governor's cuts take out this crucial department. Not only that, this latest round of cuts puts the University on the brink of losing accreditation. This will undoubtedly affect that avenue of the economy as the potential engineers who would work for these companies will now have devalued degrees from a 2nd rate institution.
ReplyDeletePhilosophy majors actually end up making more money that business, biology, Biotechnology, Journalism, Animal Science, or health care administration majors (see the link below). Higher salaries means more tax revenues for the state. The reason, as many people have pointed out above, is that philosophy teaches one how to solve problems, think critically and communicate effectively. These are essential skills.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp
I saw your link and my guess is that philosophy undergrad is paired with another graduate degree to get to that pay level. If you look at the beginning pay level of a philosophy, the pay is near the bottom of the list. How else do you explain the pay difference from beginning to end, which is about the greatest among the jobs.
ReplyDeleteActually, Dan, those payscale numbers are for majors who do NOT get graduate degrees (see the footnotes of the study). If you count those that get graduate degrees, the salaries for philosophers would be even higher. (also, it is not right to say that starting salaries for philosophers is near the bottom---they are still higher than biology, criminal justice etc, these are not "worthless" majors). It is a hard question why philosophy majors make a big leap in salary gains from beginning to mid-career though. In my opinion, it is because philosophy majors are really good at critical thinking, solving problems and thinking outside the box. These are skills that are more important for managerial high paying jobs. When they get out of college, philosophy majors cant get these jobs right away but eventually, their skills are recognized and they end up moving up the ladder faster. Some evidence of their high capacity for reasoning etc can be found in the stats for LSAT, GMAT GREs. philosophy majors score near the top in graduate tests. These tests are not very field specific, they are more like general IQ tests. You can look at the data here:
ReplyDeletehttp://libarts.wsu.edu/philo/overview/grad-admissions.asp
I would encourage people to get learn more about philosophy. It is an interesting field that has made important contributions to civilization. Adam Smith was a philosophy professor, and Isaac Newton was a "natural" philosopher. John Locke was a philosopher who had a huge influence in the thinking of the founding fathers of this nation.
Anyone care to understand the complexities of sexual violence and domestic violence? How about the specific issues affecting women in the workplace, or women's health issues? Trafficking? The variety of political and social conflicts in the United States and around the world that revolve around gender issues? This kind of knowledge has been good for those pursuing careers in medicine, law, social work, psychology, public policy, and a variety of other fields. But why have specific knowledge about HALF of the popluation?
ReplyDeleteDoes UNLV have a men studies program? Nope.
ReplyDeleteSo why just women studies? Why don't they have a men's study program at UNLV?
Further, these studies can be studied in other areas of the college.
Call me when they have a men's studies program.
The shattering ignorance of most of these comments is really quite amazing. Philosophy is the foundation of all scholarly endeavors. Without it NONE of the other subjects in a university would exist, not science, not business, not engineering, NONE of them. They are all originally based in Philosophy.
ReplyDeleteAs for Women's Studies, well, please explain to me how a subject that examines the experience, perspective, and contribution of 50% of human society is somehow worthless or unnecessary.
The purpose of a university degree is not just to get a job. Any fool can get a job (though maybe in this economy _only_ fools can get jobs). The purpose is to create an educated citizen who will contribute constructively to the republic. That involves teaching critical thinking, analysis, writing, and the appreciation of multiple perspectives. Philosophy is the CORNERSTONE of this attempt, and Women's Studies is one of the most important contemporary expressions of it.
Appreciate and support them, for science without humanities is truly barbarism.
Dr. OfNothing
"As for Women's Studies, well, please explain to me how a subject that examines the experience, perspective, and contribution of 50% of human society is somehow worthless or unnecessary."
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't UNLV have a men's studied program? If it is that important for women, then it must be important for men.
"Appreciate and support them, for science without humanities is truly barbarism." Anyone ever called you a drama queen?
I am sure what you said is for the most part true about philosphy and other academics, then if it is so important, put a class of philosphy in each department. But you don't need to have a degree in philosphy.
Finally: "The purpose of a university degree is not just to get a job." Great, but why should the taxpayer have to subsidize these non-job creaction degrees? Where is the benefit for the State and taxpayers if a person cannot get a good job after they leave college with a worthless degree? They should have some obligation to get a job and start paying taxes.
Thank for your input, though.
UNLV has a "men's studies" program. It's called History. Also Dan, your previous comment just ignores the payscale study posted earlier. Do you recommend cutting UNLV's education, biology, or better yet, Hotel College since their earning power is apparently less than that of philosophy majors? Also, I find it ironic that you seem to have no problem with the proposed cutting of the Environmental Science program and SEVERAL of the business college programs. I agree with you that these cuts have to come from somewhere, but in the current crisis, I think a non-discriminatory and cooperative atmosphere is more productive to solving this problem than simply calling out subjects one hasn't studied as "worthless."
ReplyDeletePlease, calling men's studies "history" and women's studies 'legitmate" is almost laughable.
ReplyDeleteEducation, Hotel college and to a lesser extent, biology are actual job creating degrees. Philosphy is not. Who hires a person with a philosphy degee?
I am glad you agree that there will be budget cuts, so where and what would you cut?
You laugh at the idea of Women's Studies being "legitimate," but your scale is completely skewed as you are basing this on your sole opinion that Women's Studies doesn't create jobs. Obviously, you don't come out of Women's Studies and expect a high paying job; but ask any of the students in that program. Nearly all plan on doing some form of graduate study and those who don't are already working citizens who can continue up the corporate ladder with their work experience. You're simply being stereotypical. Just look at the faculty. They all seem to be doing fine with their Women's Studies degrees.
ReplyDeleteHowever, with that being said, I would cut salaries rather than whole programs. You've explicitly mentioned in many of your posts that people like Dina Titus have large salaries. I agree that many faculty members and administrators at the university could live with a substantial pay cut. I find their silence at a time when colleagues are on the verge of losing their jobs surprising.
This is not about agreeing there will be cuts. Cuts are inevitable, but stereotyping programs and then targeting them for elimination is not a solution; it merely adds to the problem. You try to prove a point that certain degrees can yield jobs, but the fact is very few degrees can guarantee jobs upon graduation. Should we just cut every program besides those so that UNLV's endowment can increase tenfold in a time of recession? You mock the fact that no one hires a philosophy major. Let me ask you this: who will hire a business major when there are no job openings?
You do make some good points, especially about the endownment and I appreciate it.
ReplyDeleteAs far as getting jobs out of college, I would think there are a few majors that offer better chances than others of getting people jobs.
But at this time, when money is very tight, a college can't be everything to all people and you need to decide what programs or areas that will be cut or reduced.
There are other colleges that offer Women Studies and Philosophy so, why duplicate such a small degree program?
"There are other colleges that offer Women Studies and Philosophy so, why duplicate such a small degree program?" <--That is a very valid point to consider in the midst of these cuts. I know that UNLV has been working closely with UNR so that programs being cut at one school would not be eliminated from the other. I wonder if this applies to Women's Studies. However, Philosophy offers essential courses for many different majors. At most, I would have hoped that they eliminate SOME positions, but not ALL. Cutting it completely seems too extreme, and realistically, makes me wonder if it is an empty threat aimed at causing higher rates of student protest. I agree with this last post of yours the most, but when it comes to education, training, and careers, I don't believe that "better" chance at securing a job should be the single factor determining a program's value, particularly if it is aimed to be eliminated.
ReplyDeleteIt's a sad world we live in where every decision we make for our society (education, housing, healthcare etc) is based on finances. How barbaric it is that we can only justify decisions based on money. I say we take our heads out of our asses and support a resource based economy as proposed in the movie Zeitgeist. If you haven't watched it please do so... atleast knowing that our society doesn't have to be this way is a step in the right direction.
ReplyDeletehttp://zeitgeistmovie.com/