When a police officer shoots and kills a person, you think of some down on their luck person or bum or violent criminal.
Well, Saturday's victim of a police shooting was none of the above. The victim, Erik Scott, is a West Point graduate with a Master's degree, with no criminal history and a CCW permit holder.
The LVRJ interviewed witnesses and no one saw a gun, though he did have two guns on him.
According to the police in their statements to the LVRJ, the cops said he pulled a gun from his waist band. That's a huge contradiction.
According to Costco employees, they said he was destroying merchandise. No one interviewed by the LVRJ and Sun on Saturday said they saw him destroy merchandise. There should be a video tape of that. A question: Did Costco call the police because the guy had a gun and they were afraid and made up the destroying merchandise story? I would like to see the tape and hear the 911 call.
Was it appropriate for the officer to tap the guy on the shoulder before talking to him? If the cop was in back of him, that probably would have startled him. If he knew there was an evacuation going on, but did not know why or that he was the subject of the evacuation, he may have thought there some people with guns on the grounds and the person touching him was a terrorist or some other bad person. Or if the cops were both in front of him and in back, he may have concentrated on the front cops and was startled and acted with his reflexes if he went for his gun.
Another problem: Scott was allowed to leave the store with other customers. Why? And if he was destroying merchandise and acting berserk, why was he so calm coming out of the store.
Another problem I have: I used to work at a Wal-Mart in a kind of seedy area of town. We would have shop lifters all the time. The cops never waited for the shoplifter or a customer causing a disturbance to come out. They went inside and calmly confronted the suspect. Further, if the cops knew there maybe a problem, how come they let him come outside with the crowd, instead of isolating him in the store?
For more information: http://www.lvrj.com/news/slaying-of-army-veteran-shocks-friends-98223884.html?numComments=40
I don't know what happened because I was not there and I do support the cops more often than not. I but I ask the questions because we have had an awful lot of police shootings lately by Metro and Henderson police departments. Most seem legitimate though some others not so.
I don't know if there is another agency or in a county, in the Country that has had more police shootings than in the Valley and that troubles me. I also have problems with some of Metro's honesty, especially after a Metro officer was killed in a car accident that involved with a civilian. They initially blamed the civilian and even had him arrested but after the facts came out, it was the officer who was at fault and Metro had to issue a retraction.
I also know that human nature tells me that the cops feel terrible about taking lives. It is something they do not want to do or take lightly.
We could learn something about this case at the coroner's inquest, but I doubt it. It is basically a sham because they take the cops word and rarely put someone on the stand who opposes the cops. The family may sue, but there will probably be a settlement before the trial, so the whole truth may never come out. Just look at the recent police shooting: you hardly anything more about the case where the cops shot and killed a man inside his apartment after the man made a "furtive" move against the cop. That case has been swept under the rug for all intents and purposes.
Someone in the comments section mentioned that the FBI should investigate. Maybe they should and may answer some questions and it may also exonerate the police as well.
But there really needs to be some explaining to do about all these cases.
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This is the unfortunate result of the gun nut, wild west mentality cultivated in Nevada. If you live in Pahrump or Ely, fine, I guess you can carry two guns with you for your grocery shopping, but Las Vegas is a major metropolitan area with lots of people, and there is absolutely no reason to carry two semi-automatic firearms into a Costco. And this story shows that there is every reason in the world not to do so.
ReplyDeleteHad I been in Costco and noticed someone carrying a weapon, I would have called the police and alerted management too. That's something that the people who carry weapons, and especially those who fail to actually "conceal" them, are going to have to deal with as a consequence of their paranoia.
Finally, I would assume Costco has a no firearms policy for its stores, and this unfortunate guy was violating that policy. Yet another reason to leave your guns locked up at home.
I understand your view. I don't own guns and probablynever will.
ReplyDeleteWhy he feels the need carry two gun to Costco, I have no idea, but he was probably carrying them legally- no one has suggested otherwise.
My big problem is why the cop tapped him on the shoulder during a tense situation. My feeling you either shout demands and idenitfy yourself or you tackle the guy before he has the chance to get the guns out. People have a startle reflex and when you tap them on the shoulder people get tense, not calm down.
People is this city cannot fathom the job that we as police officers have in Las Vegas. Just because a person is a West Point graduate dos not mean that he can't loose his mind inside of a Costco store and then not comply with police officers. I do not know what happened that day but that is why we all need to wait for the investigation to be done so that the facts of the case can be revealed. I've been a cop in this city going on 5 years and I do not know of any cop that shows up to a call and has the forethought that they want to kill someone. We arrive with the details that are given to us via the radio and computers in our patrol cars and we go from there. We are trained to deal with crazy situations and deal with the situation as it unfolds real in real time. I know that trusting a bunch of citizens as to what they saw as they are running out of a store in an effort to save their life is not the account I would post all over the news sites.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that after every officer involved shooting, all of the news sites post accounts of the incident that portray police as trigger happy nuts who have a shoot first ask questions later attitude which is th furthest from the truth. LVMPD is a proud organization with very professional cops who risk their lives every day so that people in this community can feel safe while out shopping or asleep in their bads. We have the ocassional bad apple but 99% of us are good.
We have to make split second decisions during tense situations that are backed by numerous supreme court cases such as Grahm Vs Connor.
Before you accuse these cops of murder, wait for all the facts to come out WHICH THEY WILL, then we will see what TRULY HAPPENED.
If 99% of you are so "good" then where were the apologies for the near murder of Darling by the nutcase that you guys put on a "five star general" funeral for that was televised all day while the public was made to think he was run down by a drunk?????
ReplyDeleteHow many of you are going to attend Erik's funeral?
If you had an ounce of goodness in you, you wouldn't back up each others lying stories.
Give me a break.
@Anonymous post at the top
ReplyDeleteAnd its people like you, who call metro, get them all worked up, that get other people shot.
And Costco does not have a no firearm policy within the confines of CCW carriers. assmunch
Read the story idiot, and dont comment till you know the full account.
none of the witnesses accounts even come close to what the cops said happened.
"We have to make split second decisions during tense situations that are backed by numerous supreme court "
ReplyDeleteSo shooting AND tazing the guy is backed by the supreme court?
Another problem I have is that the suits at Metro, the PIO's or supervisors, now have come out with a different story than from the weekend.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to hang the cops out to dry. It is an extremely difficult job and the cops are under pressure constantly. They are second guessed all the time.
But when you get two different stories from the administration, you really have to wonder what is going on.
I'm more afraid of being shot by a cop when shopping than a person who has a ccw and is of sound mind. You have to take classes to receive a ccw. Maybe cops should take classes.
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by chicypots. Even though some people may find your comment a little extreme, but think about it. How many people with CCW have killed someone on the street in the past year compared how many times cops around the Valley have killed someone.
ReplyDeleteNow, again, most of the cases this year seem justified in the cop shootings. However the cop shooting at Costco, in the drug raid and in Henderson when they killed a father in front of his son raise questions for me.
Dillinger was only shot 3 times. He was a known BAD GUY. This man was shot 7 times, in front of many people.
ReplyDeleteI like it when actual police officers post their views. They should do it more often to remind others they are citizens of the community also. Last year I was acquainted with a person who went through the academy and then began his ride alongs. Terrible is the word I would use to describe the situation this young man entered. He saw things in his first two weeks that were shocking. Lot's of stuff that never gets reported in any of our fine papers.
ReplyDeleteThe officer's post that people in this city can't fathom the job they do is just wrong. I have had opportunity to witness first hand the horrible side of humanity. I know the line they hold keeping scum away from the rest of society. Not an easy job. I depend on these men and women for what they do mostly because I do not want to do it on a regular basis. If it were up to me I would calmly go through the rest of my life without worrying about criminals again. But, this is the real world and they are out there.
To any officer that may read this. Your job sucks. But just like I told anyone I served with "No one held a gun to your head when you signed up for this" This is what you chose. You are held to a higher standard. It's just the way it is. Start here by building community trust. Understand that from many aspects this looks bad. Lose the pride and ego and just address the concerns that are out there with facts.
I totally agree. I do know many police officers and haver seen some of the many things they have seen. But officers see more death, destruction, abuse, sickness, thugs all the while many people show little or no respect for the police officers. Police officers are not perfect even though they are expected to be right 100% of the time. They are abused by the public, press, the courts and maybe some supervisors.
ReplyDeleteI am not trying to hang out these cops out to dry, however, if they made a mistake, admit it and find a way to correct it. But it seems like the supervisors are the ones who are making things worse and are in the CYA mode.